From being a dope dealer to becoming a hope dealer, richard’s transformation highlights the power of personal development, forgiveness, and the impact of positive influences.

Ever think there's a connection between putting together IKEA furniture and getting sober?   The steps to sobriety is much like the methodical assembly of those Scandinavian flat-pack puzzles. Each piece, much like each day in sobriety, is a step in the right direction, building a stronger, more resilient self. The way you tackle those flat-pack puzzles reflects how you approach life's challenges.  What works for one person might not work for you.

This podcast is here to guide you through that assembly process, in a way that's both informative and entertaining. Welcome to Flat-Pack Sober!

Have you ever wondered what it takes to turn your life around completely?

In this episode, Richard Kaufman, a recovering addict and dedicated National Guard member, shares his remarkable and transformative journey from the depths of addiction to the heights of sobriety, celebrating an impressive milestone of 35 years of being sober. Known widely as the "comeback coach," Richard delves into his unique and effective approach to personal growth and learning, which he achieves through insightful interviews with highly successful individuals from various walks of life.

Richard emphasizes the critical importance of personal development and the powerful impact of surrounding oneself with positive influences. He highlights the significance of community support, accountability, and authenticity in the challenging yet rewarding process of maintaining sobriety. Richard passionately discusses the power of forgiveness, a framework that has been instrumental in his own recovery and personal growth.

This episode is a testament to the power of determination, the importance of personal development, and the transformative potential of forgiveness and positive influences.

This is how Richard built the sober lif she wanted. If Richard’s story resonates with you or you're on a similar path, remember that you're not alone. There's a whole community out there ready to support you. Until next time, keep building your life, one sober piece at a time.

Transcript

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:00:00) -  Hey there soba superstars! Welcome to Flatpack Soba, your catalogue of tips, tricks and tactics to design your alcohol free life. So my guest today is all about service. He served his country as a member of the National Guard for many years. He served his customers, helping them improve their health and their fitness. He serves his community where he is known as the comeback coach, which I think is a great name, by the way, and I kind of have this suspicious feeling that maybe there's an element of service in his recovery as well, but we will find out. So please give a big, warm Flatpack sober. Welcome to Richard Kaufman. Thank you so.

Richard Kaufman (00:00:44) -  Much for having me on your amazing show. I'm truly humbled and honored. And Crystal, thank you so much for everything you do. Thank you for making this up such a seamless process. So thank you so much.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:00:58) -  That is a that is a good that's a good shout. I will just add my amazing thanks to Crystal who works tirelessly in the background, manages the entire show, and she allows people like you and me to just show off and riff a little bit and make it all look easy.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:01:16) -  So thank you very much, Krystal. Keep up the good work. So let's talk about Flatpack Furniture. how if I gave you, well, you know, Ikea, right? They have Ikea around where you live, I guess. I hate that.

Richard Kaufman (00:01:30) -  I hate that place, so. Oh, okay.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:01:32) -  It's always a bit of a wedge issue, the Ikea thing. Anyway, if I gave you some flatpack furniture, what would be your approach in assembling it?

Richard Kaufman (00:01:41) -  Have somebody else do it. Because I know that if I fix it, it's going to break. So I should have my. I'll have my cousin Pat come over and assemble it.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:01:51) -  Okay. I'm a big fan of outsourcing, but, if I really made you do it, would you would your first thought be. Well, I'll get Pat to help me, or would you just get stuck in yourself?

Richard Kaufman (00:02:02) -  I had to help me because I know what I'm good at. And I know what I'm good I'm not good at. So I'll just get I have I'd have Pat come over, we'd hang out, order some food and just hang out and put it up.

Richard Kaufman (00:02:13) -  Put it together no matter how long it took.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:02:16) -  Oh yeah. Like I like that. That's a really good strategy. You're going to try and make it look like he's helping you, but you're basically going to get him to do it. and. Yeah. Okay. Good. Right. That's that's quite nice. the reason why I like to delve into people's choices around Flatpack furniture is I think it's a great way of kind of putting people into a little bit of a box about how they approach life, how they approach learning. So would you say you are quite a social person who learns, in groups? Are you very much like always thinking about that person who can help you solve a particular problem?

Richard Kaufman (00:02:51) -  Oh well, when I was growing up, I had severe ADHD and I read everything backwards dyslexia. So I wasn't a great learner. everything I learned, I learned to do, by hand. And I learned that's just a different teacher learning modality. But, I mean, I'm a ninth grade dropout, but I've read over 6000 books.

Richard Kaufman (00:03:13) -  I have 18 going right now. I got two audio books going right now. I watch a lot of YouTube, so I'm all over the place as far as my learning goes, but I never stop learning. So. But for me, if you, if you, if you tell, if you give me a book and tell me to do something, I can do it. But if I see you do it and I watch you do it and we do it together, then I can do it.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:03:37) -  So. So in general, you, you just like learning. I know it's my kind of guide, but, that kind of that practical, that kind of dynamo, that active, learning that that appeals to you as well.

Richard Kaufman (00:03:50) -  Yeah. Because I, I'm a big learner and that's, you know, if anything, I can learn. If I didn't learn something in the day, then I don't feel like my day was worth anything. So I'm always constantly learning. And it might be something stupid.

Richard Kaufman (00:04:04) -  It might be something I know nothing about. Like like with like with that spaceship behind you, I'd be like, you know what? I don't know what jet propulsion is, but I'm going to watch eight hours of YouTube for absolutely no reason, just to find out why and what jet propulsion is.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:04:21) -  Okay, well, I'll give you a nice, quick, lava lamp fact. This is from a company called Maximus, and they got their name from a film called Barbarella. I don't know if you remember that. Yes. Yes. yeah. Sci fi film. So there you go. That's where their name came from also. I think Duran Duran got their name from there as well. Anyways, that's, that's a nice, useless fact for you to learn. So, let's get on, with some something like an interview. yeah. Tell tell everybody a little bit about yourself.

Richard Kaufman (00:04:55) -  Well, my claim to fame is I'm a. I went from dope dealer to hope dealer, and, I'm a recovering addict.

Richard Kaufman (00:05:07) -  Guys, I am in recovery still. I just celebrated 35 years of sobriety. No alcohol, no drugs since 1989. So I'm. I am that hardcore guy that won't touch anything. But I've had a lot of shares. I went to jail a couple of times. I got thrown out of the military, almost did five years in prison because of my addiction. So, I'm the guy that when you were growing up, your mother warned you about. But now I'm also the guy that if we're walking down the street and five guys come up behind you, you're. I'm the guy that you want with you. So I have a I'm the walking dichotomy. I'm a little bit of everything. I'm a little bit of everywhere and a little bit of nowhere.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:05:52) -  No, no, I like that. And I mean, you know, props, respect for 35 years, I, you know, that's, that is a long, long time. And yeah, we'll, we'll get into that in a little bit more detail.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:06:06) -  I'm sure. It just kind of struck me that, like, I think I started drinking about 35 years ago. It's almost like we did a swap.

Richard Kaufman (00:06:15) -  I actually I had my first drink at 11. I was a full blown alcoholic at 13, and I quit at 20, so I wasn't even able to drink in the States before I quit.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:06:29) -  Wow, that's that's pretty good. So, Yeah. Yeah, that's that's tasty, I like that. So what method did you use to, to stop drinking?

Richard Kaufman (00:06:41) -  Well, I had a choice. I, I actually robbed a police officer on New Year's Eve 1989, and I wish I can remember the guy's name. I don't remember, and I wish I could, or else I'd buy him anything he wanted. I'd take him out for dinner, steak and lobster, whatever he wanted. But, after I robbed him, he. He said, I'm going to give you a break. He said, you can either go to jail for five years for grand larceny, or you can get my money back in 24 hours.

Richard Kaufman (00:07:12) -  And if you do that, then you got to go to 90 meetings of A.A. in 90 days, I begged and I borrowed. I didn't steal, but I begged and borrowed. I got the money in 24 hours, and I paid every cent back, by the way, with interest. But instead of hitting 90 meetings in 90 days, I hit 300 in a row. And I haven't had a drink since January 2nd, 1989. So for me, I don't I don't have I don't have anything special except I know my mantra is I drink, I die next, there is nothing else. And that's where I'm sitting. I'm actually sitting my my wife has beer in the fridge. She's got wine in the fridge, she got alcohol. And I'm like, listen, if I drink one drink, one drop, I'm not coming back. I ain't going to make it. I'm going to die. So for me, I drink, I die next. So it's kind of. I had somebody yell at me saying, because I did something on Reddit.

Richard Kaufman (00:08:16) -  I think I said, talking about how relapse does not have to be part of your recovery. And I got a lot of shit for it. But I also said, if I got cancer once, you don't got to tell me to get cancer again. I'm good. I had it once. I don't want it again. So you don't have to. You you don't have to relapse if you know a lot of people do, but you don't have to relapse because some people that thought they were going to make it one more, one more drink, one more drug, some of them don't make it back to the rooms. So for me, I'm just like, you know what? It's it's not for me. I don't drink, and I that's what I tell people. I just don't drink. And when if I go out to dinner with my wife and they'll ask me, do you want to drink? And I'll say, no, I'm allergic to alcohol. I break out in handcuffs, so I don't want to drink.

Richard Kaufman (00:09:04) -  Thank you.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:09:06) -  that's I mean, that's, Yeah, there's so much in that. incidentally, I think you've just accidentally turned your camera off, so if you could pop that back on, then I can see your beautiful face. You don't want.

Richard Kaufman (00:09:19) -  To see this ugly mouth. There we go.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:09:20) -  Hey. Yeah. I don't like talking to myself. I always feel a bit bad about that, but, Yeah. So do you think that that kind of that change of mindset, is that the the most powerful thing that's managed to to keep you sober?

Richard Kaufman (00:09:35) -  Well, for its for me, it is obviously for somebody else that might not be and I tell people, you know, everybody, everybody's ceilings is somebody else's floor. So, you know, I can't tell you how to get sober. I can just tell you how I did it. And unfortunately, I went to AA and I was 20 years old. So I'm there sitting and I'm drunk, hungover, drinking nasty coffee, eating nasty cookies with like, 50 year old guys.

Richard Kaufman (00:10:05) -  And they told me, listen. Sit down. Shut up. You don't know anything. Just sit here and get sober. So that's what I did. I'm still that old school, kind of that old school sobriety guide, but, like. Listen, guys, if you don't, if you don't want to get drunk tomorrow, don't drink today. Simple. It's it. Yes. You can't have two if you don't have one. So that's the way I tell when I, when I sponsor people, I'm like, listen, you can drink any day. Just not today.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:10:36) -  Yeah, yeah. No, no, that's, that. Yeah. There's a lot in that as well, isn't there? So, I just want to touch briefly on that, that idea that, you know, 90 meetings in 90 days, that's that's an AA thing. Very useful tactic, I think. how long? How long did it take you to do your 300 meetings?

Richard Kaufman (00:10:59) -  300 days.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:11:00) -  300 days. So you just kind of, like, got to 90 and forgot to stop, I like it.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:11:06) -  And, you know.

Richard Kaufman (00:11:06) -  News, because it was like, okay, I'm home. And. Yeah. So why would I have to go anywhere if I felt at home? Because even though they were 40 and 50 years old, they were telling my story. So why would I have to go in here and there? I can be myself if I'm having a problem with my girlfriend or whatever, I can just say, listen, guys, I'm having a problem today and they would bring it up to the room when we talk about it. So it was very therapeutic for me.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:11:31) -  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I think there's so much power in finding a group of people who who understand us so much that they are almost telling our story?

Richard Kaufman (00:11:44) -  Yeah. And you know, that's why I love going on podcasts. I love going to speak in prisons, jails and rehabs because I tell my story and everybody is like, you know what? I did the same thing, or I feel the same way.

Richard Kaufman (00:11:56) -  So no matter where we are in life, I'm still an alcoholic. I'm still an addict. So wherever I go, no matter what I do, whether it's a top selling podcast, top selling author, I'm still an algae. I'm still a druggie. So people can relate to me because I'm not trying to be something that I'm not.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:12:16) -  Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I, I don't think I'm, I'm not sure a lot of people really, truly understand the power of their story to, to to show people that, you know, they are not alone. Because so much of the time when I was drinking, I did feel like I was the only person in the entire world that had that problem. And to hear the stories of other people, you know, it's just it's so liberating. And, you know, that's it makes you feel part of a community. And it was the, the, a community that was a big part of your journey? Is it still a part of your journey?

Richard Kaufman (00:12:58) -  I mean, I go to meetings every once in a while, but after I started getting along into my personal development journey, I went to the same meeting.

Richard Kaufman (00:13:06) -  I think for ten years in a while I only went to men's meetings. I didn't go to men and women's meetings because I didn't want to deal with that bullshit. I didn't want to deal with the 13 step and and all that crap. So, you know, and if I had a problem with my wife, I can bring it up because we're all guys, so I don't want to deal with drama. But after I was there a while, I would see guys and all they're doing is not drinking. I'm like, but you don't have a house, you don't have a car, you don't have a business, you don't have a wife or whatever. All you're doing is not drinking. That's not a life for me. So for me, I want something else besides not drinking. And it kind of got aggravating because I know the same people talk about the same thing for year after year, and they were in the same position in their life. They didn't change except for not drinking. And for me, that's not sobriety.

Richard Kaufman (00:13:55) -  You know? That's just that's just being dry. And so I don't go to as much as I used to.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:14:02) -  Okay. So is it almost to the point that, you you want people to know what you are doing, who you are, the great work that you're doing, the progress that you're making. you don't want to be defined by something that you haven't done for 35 years. You know, that it like, genuinely it's something. Why would you be known for something you're not doing? Get known for things that you are doing. All the amazing work that you are doing. Is that that where you're coming from?

Richard Kaufman (00:14:29) -  Well, I had a meeting with our friend or my friend Gary Vaynerchuk. We had lunch together and I told him I was like, you know, I want to tell my story. And I told him my story. He's like, you may be only able to speak to 20 people in an AA meeting, but if you go live on a podcast, if you go speak on a stage, you write a book, you're affecting millions of people.

Richard Kaufman (00:14:55) -  And that was my goal to say, okay, you know, I'm not anonymous. I'm somebody and I'm going to be able to reach more people that are not in a meeting than somebody that is then, now that I'm out. So if I'm out at the at the store with my wife, people come up to me, hey, Rich, I seen you. I seen your show, I seen one of your podcasts. I love to get together because I know you've been sober for 35 years, and nobody's ever talked to me about it. And I don't want to go to one of those meetings. So I'm not the anonymous guy anymore. Yeah, and I'm okay with that. But just because I realized, okay, I can reach more people by not just going to meetings and I caught a lot of shit for it. I catch a lot of shit for it. But that's okay because I've had people write me notes. Hey, I just pulled. I just pulled a gun barrel out of my mouth.

Richard Kaufman (00:15:48) -  Not I wanted to shoot myself, but I seen one of your videos. So for me, then it's saying, okay, then what? I'm. Then what Gary says is actually working, but I still go to the meetings and if somebody's in a meeting, I will never give up their anonymity. Yeah, yeah. You know. Yeah.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:16:06) -  So I mean, Gary Vaynerchuk is amazing. A lot of time for him. I'd, I'd love to have lunch with him. I don't know how often he comes to Oxford, but, Is that is that part of it? You know? Matter of fact, I need.

Richard Kaufman (00:16:20) -  To hook you up with my friend, doctor Rob Kelly. He's from Oxford. Oh. And I was just on his podcast because he's the addiction doctor, so I'm going to have to hook you guys.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:16:32) -  All of the truly clever people live in Oxford and I live quite close to it, so that's huge.

Richard Kaufman (00:16:37) -  That's where the brains are from. Well, if you're.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:16:41) -  If you're if you're ever in the area, you know come round is a is a beautiful, beautiful city.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:16:45) -  Kind of ruined the world for me because I grew up thinking everywhere. Was that pretty? And then you you go to places like Peterborough, but it's not quite the same. But never mind. I'm always a bit rude about Peterborough. Sorry to any listeners from Peterborough. but yeah, that idea that, you know, you, you become like the people you spend time with. So by spending time with people like Gary Vaynerchuk, that raises your expectations and that makes you perform more. Has that been a kind of an important part of your personal development journey? Well, yeah, because I.

Richard Kaufman (00:17:23) -  Realize, and I even forget it was that I read so many books, they kind of go together and they meld, but that, you know, if you're, if you hang out with five people that are millionaires, well, guess who's going to be the six? If you hanging out with five guys that are cheating on their wives, guess who's going to be the sixth? So for me, I want to hang out with people that I can identify with that are living a lifestyle that I would like to live.

Richard Kaufman (00:17:49) -  So like for me. And the great thing is the mind doesn't really know the difference. Whether you're listening to a podcast or whether the person is actually sitting right there beside you, so you don't have to be in that person's vicinity to be in their ecosystem. And a lot of people don't realize that. They say, I can't afford to hire a mentor. Well, you can listen to admire Gary Vaynerchuk, Tim Ferriss. It costs you 15 bucks a month on audible. So, you know, if you want to change your life, watch what you're listening to.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:18:21) -  Oh that's amazing. In that case, I had lunch with Andrew Huberman today.

Richard Kaufman (00:18:26) -  So awesome. Dude. Awesome.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:18:30) -  Awesome, dude. Yeah yeah yeah. And I mean, like, I know, I mean, I like to think I've got a bit of a grasp on, on science kind of thing, but that guy's in a different, different legal together, different stratosphere. So I mean, learning, you know, it's a, it's a obviously a big thing for you has that Has has learning about sobriety been a big thing or is it just learning about life in general? Well, for.

Richard Kaufman (00:19:03) -  Me, what I did is I mean, like I said, I've been sober now 35 years, but what I do is I act now instead of reading the books. I actually interview people that have hung out with Mr. Sir Elton John before he got sober, when he was actually playing doctor Rob. The guy was just talking about actually played on backing tracks from Elton John at Abbey road. but he and he would tell me stories about what Elton was like before sobriety. And then what Elton was like is after sobriety. So I study a lot of people that were, Off the off the off the rails. and now they're sober. So I kind of like Eminem, you know, Elton John helped get him sober. the, the basis for, for Motley Crue. He, he, he was a big heroin addiction, but now he's sober. So for me, I like to study people that where they were at one time and where they're at now. So and that's why I instead of reading as many books now I'm an audible audible book junkie, so I always have a couple audible books going on on every day.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:20:14) -  Okay, what speed do you listen to, though? That's the real killer question.

Richard Kaufman (00:20:18) -  Regular speed. But what I do is most of the time is something that I. I learned from my brother Russell Brunson. What I'll do is I'll actually buy the book and read it and listen to it at the same time.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:20:32) -  you see that that that's really interesting. I do do that sometimes. Not. Not a huge amount, but when, when I really, really want to absorb the information because, if you, if you get boring and into learning theory, like, like I did at one point in my life, if you listen to it and read it at the same time, it does improve your, recall of of things. So, Also, I find it much easier to make notes on real books than I do on audible.

Richard Kaufman (00:21:04) -  So what I'll do is a lot of times I'll read a book first, and then I'll go get the audiobook and I'll listen to it next. This way it'll like.

Richard Kaufman (00:21:12) -  Oh yeah, I remember we talked he talked about I remember that. So it kind of it kind of, you know, hacks your memory to, to start. Remember some of the some of the stuff.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:21:22) -  Oh, cool. So, I mean, I'm, I'm guessing that, community is, is a a big important thing for you. are there any other communities that you've got involved in, that you think have been really helpful and protective of your sobriety? well.

Richard Kaufman (00:21:45) -  When I moved to new Jersey 14 years ago, I had zero friends, literally zero friends. I had my wife and I had one cousin. And now, 14 years later, we're known all over the world. I think I only got like 10,000. And I don't have followers, I have friends, I don't have followers. So I think on Facebook I got like 10,000 followers or friends, and, and LinkedIn like 27,000 or so in our podcast. I think it's 1.6 million download. But for me it's kind of like, every day if I'm not feeling good, I'll put on my Facebook page.

Richard Kaufman (00:22:26) -  Guys, I'm struggling today and and I know as soon as I press post, somebody's calling me somebody like, hey, Rich, I seen you're having a bad day. What's going on? So I keep myself accountable that way. And then I also keep myself accountable that, if I know another friend of mine, I see them struggling. I'm the first one in the morning. Texted him. Hey, brother. How you doing? How you feeling? I know, I know, your mom passed yesterday. I don't want to bother you, but how are you feeling? And don't give me the bullshit answer. I'm okay. Don't. Don't even care. Don't give me the answer because I know what the answer is. So when I ask you, are you okay? I'm going to ask you, are you really okay? Now we can talk. So I try to keep myself accountable to my friends and they're accountable to me.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:23:16) -  After interviewing you for just over 20 minutes, I realized that bullshit answer would be the wrong one.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:23:25) -  Yeah, so.

Richard Kaufman (00:23:26) -  But so, you know, I just keep myself accountable and I'll even say, you know, and I try to keep myself accountable in all aspects of my life. Like, if me and my wife have an argument, I'm always wrong anyway. But I'll go downstairs and I'll think about it, and then I'll think, what part did I have to make in it? And I'll go upstairs and I'll say, honey, I'm sorry, you know, for arguing with you, raising my voice. So I try to be accountable in every aspect of my life.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:23:57) -  Yeah, yeah. And I think that's really interesting about social media. You know, actually, the value of being honest and, and actually saying, well, you know what? Today is not going so great because I think there's this kind of impression that we we just have to live a perfect life on social media, and that's that's what we got to do. But what you're saying is it's actually, you know, be a real human being, make some connections, and that enriches your life.

Richard Kaufman (00:24:24) -  Yeah. And especially with all the fake AI shit that's out there right now. I think the more real you are, the more impact you're going to make.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:24:34) -  Well, yeah, I don't know. You know, I think that's such an interesting point, isn't it? You know, if everything becomes artificial, even human interaction, then the only answer is to become even more human.

Richard Kaufman (00:24:48) -  You know, because I feel like Gary said, within three years, four years, 90% of all content is going to be AI generated, but the top 10% is going to be human content. So I'm going to be there in the human content.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:25:04) -  Yeah. Oh that's interesting. So the bar is no longer where you can, put stuff out there. The bar is where you can put stuff out there that's better than the AI. And if you can do that, you'll be, you'll be absolutely fine.

Richard Kaufman (00:25:19) -  Yeah. well, that's why I say, like, I use I every day I and everybody knows what I do, but I use it as a, a tool.

Richard Kaufman (00:25:28) -  I don't use it as a crutch to where, like my doctor, when I go see my doctor, I got to see like four people before I get to my doctor. If I go see my lawyer, he's got an assistant. So I have an assistant, but you're going to get to see me. So if you use it as, as, as a tool. or if you use it as a crutch, then you're pretty much screwed. Like, if you give me a finishing hammer, your house is going to be screwed up because I don't know how to use the hammer. But if you teach me how to use the hammer like I know how to use I. I know how to use it to benefit humans. And you're going to do really well. But most people are just doing I really bad.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:26:08) -  Yeah, yeah. Well, that's Yeah, that's probably true of so many things though, isn't it? You know, just, most people don't get taught how to do stuff, do they? So I've been reading, why We Sleep Recently by Matthew Walker.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:26:31) -  very, very good book about sleep. And he made the point that, you know, pretty much everybody in school they do physical education don't they. They get taught a little bit about being more active and exercising. Most people get some input about diet. Most of us get some information about drugs and alcohol, although it seems like both of us perhaps ignored that information we were given at school. but you know who teaches you about sleep? It's like literally.

Richard Kaufman (00:27:05) -  And and I was with GNC for over 30 years. So I always talked about that's part of being a comeback coach and being helping people come back. That's when you recover, you know, that's when you you need to get a certain amount of REM sleep to To recover, you need to, you know, be able to get some restful sleep. And for me, I found I have a couple hacks that I use to get restful sleep. But I also know that there's a lot of people they go to bed watching TV or negative stuff, and then as soon as they wake up, they pick up their phone and go on Facebook or go to the news.

Richard Kaufman (00:27:43) -  So you you're going to bed in negativity and you wake up in negativity. So you really got to be cognizant of what you're watching or what you're listening when you first wake up and when you first go to bed.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:27:56) -  Yeah. I mean, not that I guess that that comes back in part to really valuing what you put into your attention, you know, because you're you're so you want to learn things and you want to put better quality information into your brain. And that, I guess, is the same, that we we consume so much intellectual trash and, that affects our sleep, but it affects the way we think as well, I guess.

Richard Kaufman (00:28:27) -  Well, yeah, because even back in the early 1900s, even Andrew Carnegie, you know, the one that taught the gentleman from thinking Grow Rich, actually said your obsessions become your possessions. So whatever you cause, you know, then you start using your RA system and your brain. And so whatever you find, whatever you look for, you're going to find.

Richard Kaufman (00:28:48) -  So if you look for health, if you look for success, you look for happiness, you're going to find it. If you look for depression, if you look for for being poor, if you look for being on a healthy, guess what? You're going to find it. Yeah.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:29:02) -  Yeah. That's so interesting, isn't it? Because I am totally obsessed with the stuff that keeps people sober. And what you're saying is, that's basically the reason why I've stayed sober.

Richard Kaufman (00:29:14) -  Hey, it works, right? It works for you.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:29:17) -  Yeah, it does, it does. And. Yeah. Well, I mean, I are you are you somebody who has a lot of obsessions.

Richard Kaufman (00:29:27) -  I obsess over? Faith. I'm a big I'm a big faith guy. My biggest obsession is, well, knowledge and gratitude. I'm a big gratitude guy. And, like, for me, this is like one of my hacks is before I go to bed every night, I reach my arm, my arm over my wife.

Richard Kaufman (00:29:49) -  I pray for her. I pray for her happiness, her health, and that she knows that I love her. I pray for my dog, which is next to me. And then I say three things that I'm grateful for today, and this podcast is going to be one of them. And then when I wake up in the morning, if I can see something, because I lost 80% of my vision six years ago. If I can see something, then I say, Lord, thank you for waking me up today. And I sit up and say out loud, this is going to be an amazing day. So if I wake up with gratitude and I go to bed with gratitude, then my life is going to be a whole lot better than if I wake up with, with, with garbage in my brain and go to sleep with garbage in my brain.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:30:33) -  Yeah, yeah. No. You see, I think I always get a little bit skeptical when people say hats, because I'm not, not I'm never entirely sure that there is an easy way to do things.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:30:47) -  Some things are just a little bit complicated, but that is so incredibly easy. It's so incredibly powerful. Nobody can turn around to you and say, oh, I don't have the money to think of three good things before I go to bed and shout, you know, let's rock the day when you jump out of bed in the morning. Or maybe that's just me. nobody can say they haven't got the time to do it. Nobody can say they don't have the skills to do it. It's like literally anyone can do it. It's so incredibly easy and it's so incredibly powerful as well.

Richard Kaufman (00:31:15) -  Well, you know, this is because your mind is like your Facebook algorithm. I can change your life in 90 days, guaranteed, no questions asked. And because your mind is like your Facebook algorithm, if for the next 90 days, if you just hearted everything positive and swiped up to everything negative within that 90 days, you're going to see nothing but positives. Same thing with your mind. If you're looking for positives constantly, that's all you're going to search out.

Richard Kaufman (00:31:42) -  It's kind of like anybody ever bought a brand new car that they were looking at for a while. As soon as they buy that car, they see that car every single place. That's your RA system at work. And you can use that RA system, the reticular activating system, which I learned from Tony Robbins. You can use that for your the good or you can use it for the bad. And most people focus on what they don't want instead of focusing on what they want. So if somebody says, I don't want to drink. No, I say, I want to stay sober. I don't focus on what I don't want. I want to focus on what I want, because your mind is going to give you exactly what you ask of it.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:32:25) -  Oh that's awesome. Your mind is like, you're like the Facebook algorithm. That's. Oh, man, you gotta, you gotta. I hope that's proprietary, because me and everybody else listening is gonna try and nick it. It's great.

Richard Kaufman (00:32:39) -  Think about it.

Richard Kaufman (00:32:39) -  Because like you said, even if you just start Harding, every all the positive stuff and you start swiping it, it's only going to show you what they know you're looking for. Well, so does your RA system. It's only going to show you what it's looking for. It's not going to show you what it's not looking for.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:32:54) -  Yeah. Which is why YouTube is now just going to show me Andrew Huberman, just more and more and more of him. But that's all right because he's a great guy to hang out with. So, do you think there are any, products, any anything that people can go out and invest in that actually helps maintain sobriety?

Richard Kaufman (00:33:16) -  The best I tell everybody, the best thing you can invest in is number one is in yourself. That's the best thing you can ever invest in. for me, I'm very, very careful of what I put in my body. obviously I can eat cookies and candy and all that shit, but, I won't use certain mouthwashes because I know it has alcohol in it.

Richard Kaufman (00:33:42) -  My wife will not cook certain cookies without the. Without the vanilla extract. Without alcohol. I won't eat salads. Certain salads. Because. Because of the vinegar in it. when I go out to eat with my wife. She tastes everything I've ever put in my mouth. If it didn't come from a cane just because I don't want to go back to day one after 35 years. And we went out the other night. I ordered a Coke and they sent me a rum and Coke. So she tried it. Obviously she tried it and she's like, yeah, you can't have this, but I'll have it. So she drank it for me. But I'm the I think you should just be very careful of who you listen to, what you watch and what you put in your mouth, because you can't get drunk if you never have the first taste.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:34:33) -  Yeah. No, I think you're you're absolutely right. And, my wife too, does like to sample everything I eat. well, mostly the desserts, but.

Richard Kaufman (00:34:45) -  Yeah, well, you know, I guess I just I'm just very careful. I don't want to go back because I know if I drink, I'm going to die. So even is. Is that one piece of bourbon cake worth it? No, it's it's not worth it. So I'm very guarded about my I'm very obsessed about my sobriety. But but I also I'm not the guy that walks around like. Oh, well, I just don't drink. No, it's not for me. you can drink all you want. I'll pour it for you. But it's just not for me. I'm allergic, but I don't make that big. Like you see some people, I'm you'll they'll go out to eat and be like, well, I'm a vegan. Like, who cares? I'm a carnivore. So? So what's your point? You know what I mean? Just some people are just such assholes when it comes to not drinking. Oh, I don't drink, I don't drink, so who cares? You know, you don't get to make you don't have to make other people uncomfortable because you don't drink and you couldn't handle it and you were allergic.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:35:42) -  Yeah, I am a vegan. I don't go on about it all of the time. but it does remind me of that joke. You know, how how can you tell if someone's vegan? How you'll find out.

Richard Kaufman (00:35:57) -  Yeah, but when you think about that, if I come to your house, I stand up and I announce I'm a carnivore. You're like, why, why, why, why would you even do something? So I don't understand the people that that. Oh, I don't drink. It's like, okay, you don't drink. Big deal. You so you know, don't you? It's not that like. Like one of the countrymen said from, you know, Mr. Jim Morrison of The Doors once said, nobody gets out of here alive. So, you know, we got to enjoy what we got here. But don't don't take yourself so serious. You're not that important.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:36:33) -  Yeah, well, I'm. I'm a big fan of not taking myself too seriously. But on a slightly more serious note, I think, there is possibly a danger if we if we kind of present sobriety as the only option, like, everybody should do it, then we just end up annoying quite a lot of people.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:36:54) -  And some of those people, you know, they they might be desperate to rebalance their relationship with alcohol and that might take them to sobriety. and if we're too kind of pushy about it, I think we put off a lot of people. So I think there's a real, real need to say, well, you know, to I don't know, I, I feel strongly about sharing the benefits, but I, I try and balance that out by not just saying it is the only way. It's it's the only way for me. It's the only way for you. But that doesn't mean it is a universal cure all for absolutely everything, does it?

Richard Kaufman (00:37:32) -  No, but like and but now I'm also the person that if my cousins are. If my nieces and nephew are having problems with alcohol, the same people that wouldn't accept me 30 years ago are sending their kids to me to make sure that I can take care of them and help get them and keep them sober. So there's a big difference. Like I said earlier, there's a difference, big difference between being dry and being sober.

Richard Kaufman (00:37:59) -  I choose to be sober. I choose not to be dry because nobody likes to be around a dry person. And the way somebody says, well, what is dry and sober mean? And I wrote that in my book, somebody that's dry is just an asshole that doesn't drink. Somebody that's sober is somebody that doesn't drink and tries not to be an asshole. So I try to be sober, you know what I mean?

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:38:23) -  Yeah, yeah, I did. I'm with you on that. I try, I don't always succeed, but I try not to be an asshole. That's absolutely. I mean, is that is does that kind of speak to something a bit a bit deeper that, you know, stopping drinking, it's one thing, but actually living a life. You know, there's so much more to it than that. And you can't just say, right, I've stopped drinking. That's it. I'm not going to do anything more. You have to keep developing.

Richard Kaufman (00:38:56) -  Well, Well, but, you know, then it all comes back to that authenticity.

Richard Kaufman (00:39:01) -  And I'm. I'm as real as it gets. I'm the most authentic guy you're ever going to see. Like, when I go out to eat, I'm going to order the surf and turf. I'm ordering steak and lobster every time, even if I don't want it. And the reason I do it because it reminds me that three miles from my house, I was living in a crack house, eating my Christmas dinner out of a garbage can 35 years ago. So I keep it as authentic as I can. And I let people know, yeah, I'm a ninth grade dropout. You know, yes, I've been to jail. I'm on my third marriage. I've been bankrupt. I've lived on the streets, but now not following the 12 steps. LED me out of my home. Following the 12 steps. LED me into my brand new home with my three, my three beautiful children and my beautiful bride. So yes, I, I the only thing that kept me sober literally for the first year was the promises.

Richard Kaufman (00:40:12) -  I would read the promises 4 or 5 times a day, and now the promises are coming true. So you can always tell you about my failures. But I'm also going to tell you about the successes, because if I didn't have the failures, I wouldn't have the successes. Yeah. So you can't you can't. You can't have it. You can't have it both ways. I mean, you can have it both ways. As long as you know. Well, this is where I was and this is where I'm going, and this is where I am now.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:40:40) -  Yeah. And I think that's. I mean, you use the word authentic authenticity. And I totally agree, it is something so powerful about the truth behind saying yes, look, I made all of these mistakes, but I have found a way to move past them. And by, you know, sharing that liberation, you allow other people to shine in their own light. Only you you allow other people to liberate themselves. Well, but.

Richard Kaufman (00:41:18) -  I also tell them, you know, I may have a top 0.5 podcasts in the world. I may have be a two time top selling author, but when I get off of this call, I got to take my 14 year old, my £14 dog, take her out, and I got to clean up her shit afterwards. So I'm not that important. I'm just like everybody else, and we're all struggling with the same thing, from the CEO to the janitor. I'm just out here saying, okay, if you're struggling, I'm struggling. Let's do it together.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:41:50) -  Yeah. I mean, that's one of the things that, I realized in, in life way, way back when that, you know, you meet all of these incredibly successful people and most of them don't sort of, like, try and create some aura of of invincibility. because at the end of the day, they're just normal human beings, like like you and me. And, you know, you're a very successful guy. And so you've got to look after the dog when you're searching for the dog.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:42:22) -  And the same I like, I go home, I get told exactly what to do by my seven year old, you know. Well, you know.

Richard Kaufman (00:42:30) -  I had, Rick Allen, the drummer from Def Leppard on the show, and we were talking about being humble and, you know, after his accident, how humble he he got humbled. But he also to we talked about how, you know, Steve, the guitar player, Steve Clark died at like 34 years old of alcoholism and drug addiction. So no matter how great we think we got it, if we don't get things under control, we're either going to lose an arm or we're going to lose our life. And so we're all dealing with the same shit. It's just on different levels.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:43:02) -  Yeah, yeah. And I mean, there are too many, tragic stories in the music industry, aren't there? Yeah, I did potential. Okay, cool. So, Before I let you go, I have to ask you about the Ikea meatballs, which I'm guessing you've never tried because you're not a big fan of the giant blue Swedish furniture company.

Richard Kaufman (00:43:31) -  The Ikea meatballs. What's that? Yeah.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:43:34) -  Oh, so they have, like, a restaurant in Ikea. And whenever people go, they they generally tend to eat the meatballs. not because they liked the meatballs. It's just that thing you've got to. When you're in Ikea, you've got to eat the meatballs, even though you don't really like them. Yeah. Well, the only reason.

Richard Kaufman (00:43:53) -  I'd be honest, the only reason I don't like Ikea. Because, like my friend Todd Saylor, one of my great friends, we're I'm wired differently. Where if you're everybody gets pushed in the same way and I want to go the opposite way. So that's the only reason I don't like it, because I don't like being told I have to go that way. So I think that's what gets me aggravated because I'm totally wired different. If you're telling me to go this way or I gotta go that way. So that might be the reason I'm not a big Ikea fan. Yeah.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:44:23) -  So basically, the best way to get you to do something is to tell you to do the exact opposite, right?

Richard Kaufman (00:44:30) -  It's like, oh yeah, you can't get sober.

Richard Kaufman (00:44:31) -  Oh, yeah. You watch me. Yeah. You.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:44:35) -  You're never going to be successful.

Richard Kaufman (00:44:38) -  Exactly. Yeah. Well Derby and then I'm going to take pictures when I do it.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:44:45) -  Oh that's brilliant. Anyway, so the meatballs, nobody really likes them, but they kind of have to eat them when they're there, which is my way of sort of like segueing into this question about recovery. You know, what is the one thing that everybody should do but nobody really wants to do? So if you want to stay sober for a long time, what's the thing you should do even though you don't want to?

Richard Kaufman (00:45:07) -  Well, and now this, because there's some people that go to the programs and I'm not hating on them. And then there's some people that are going on. Don't go to the program. I'm not hating on them. But I teach something called the Four Pillars of Forgiveness That first, you have a lot of people they don't want to forgive. So I for my clients, I teach them well.

Richard Kaufman (00:45:28) -  First you have to ask for forgiveness. Obviously that's program. then you have to forgive those that have hurt you. And then also you have to learn to forgive yourself. And that's the biggest one because we've all screwed up. So for me, everybody wants like, I was talking to my mother the other day. She's. My father died two years ago, and she's still mad at him. And I'm like, mom. Like, I'm like, for what? He's gone. And. And I said, people that don't forgive, they're just holding on to that stuff. So for me, everybody wants to be forgiven, but nobody wants to forgive. So I would believe that, you know, if you want to start getting some peace and clarity in your life, forgive the ones that hurt you. ask for forgiveness of people that you've hurt and then forgive yourself. Time to move on. You know you can't run on a treadmill if you keep on throwing shit in your rucksack. Eventually it's going to get too heavy and it's going to lay you down.

Richard Kaufman (00:46:22) -  But once you start forgiving people, you can start pulling stuff out of your ruck and eventually there's nothing left and you're flying on a treadmill. So that's something I would say is for forgive others and forgive yourself.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:46:34) -  Oh, y'all know I'm I'm a massive fan of forgiveness, and I, I think it's one of the things that people really, really struggle with forgiving themselves and. Did you think that that's kind of the right order of approach, then asking for forgiveness, acknowledging that you've made mistakes, forgiving other people, and then that kind of gets you into the habit almost. It kind of like pushes you into the right space to get to forgive yourself.

Richard Kaufman (00:47:04) -  Well, because hurt people hurt people. And I believe that we're all hurting. We all hurt. But if we don't forgive each other, then when it comes time for me to meet the man upstairs and he says, Rich, I can't forgive you, and I'm going to I'm going to be like, why not? He's like, because you didn't forgive anybody else.

Richard Kaufman (00:47:24) -  So. And I believe in the Bible. That's me. where it says, you know, forgive. Lest ye not be forgiven. So for me, even when my dad passed, we never had we had a rocky relationship. But for the last couple of years, we forgave each other. And that's why we have peace now, because we asked each other for forgiveness. So I believe forgiveness is the cornerstone of of sobriety, because a lot of us are hanging on to start from our childhood, that we still haven't forgiven that somebody else or forgiven ourselves. That's what's that's what's getting us drunk every day. It's not the alcohol, it's what's causing us to drink, and it's the trauma we haven't forgiven or asked for forgiveness for.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:48:04) -  Yeah, yeah, I don't know. There's absolutely so much in that I'm not going to overly unpack it. I'm just going to leave it for for the people to think about. But, that is some good stuff. So I'm sure everybody wants to find out a bit more about, what you do.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:48:22) -  So where is the best place to find you?

Richard Kaufman (00:48:25) -  Well, we are on the first six pages of the Google. All you have to do is Google Vertical Momentum podcast. And what I'm also going to do is because I think some I can send my book somewhere via email. Certain countries can't get it. Certain countries again can get it. So for your audience, if they send you my their email address or send it to me, I'll send them my book for free. no charge right to their email. And also if they want it, if they're struggling with anything, I can give them a 30 minute coaching call for no for for free, no cost, nothing. Just so we'll be able to talk and maybe, maybe I can help them out with something from my my experience, strength and hope. So I'm going to offer that to your listeners.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:49:10) -  That is incredibly generous of you. Thank you very much. We will, put all of that in the show notes. So, you know, people can always get in touch with us at flatpack sober.com.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:49:21) -  That's where all of the show notes go. But, look, I mean, thank you so much for your time and your wisdom and your, your, your fun and, yeah, like just the joy of life. I mean, that you you said a few times, you know, I can't drink because I don't want to die. And I believe you don't want to die because it does sound like you enjoy living an awful lot.

Richard Kaufman (00:49:46) -  Yeah, life is good. And like Jim Morrison said, nobody gets out of here alive, so you might as well enjoy it while you're here.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:49:53) -  It's perfect. And, I mean, you can you can you can mention Jim Morrison as much as you like on my podcast. That is officially approved. So, thank you so much for your time. Have a great day.

Richard Kaufman (00:50:06) -  Thank you so much and have a blast. Oh, guys, if you're watching this, make sure you leave this gentleman a five star review. Make sure you share, subscribe. Make sure you leave him a written comment because each written comment is worth ten five stars on iTunes, so make sure you leave him a written comment.

Richard Kaufman (00:50:24) -  Just so, just so he people know that he's doing what he says he's going to do.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown (00:50:28) -  Oh, I think that's very kind of you. This is advice from a very successful podcast host. So pay attention everyone.