Growing up in a mining town where heavy drinking was the norm, James's struggle with alcohol seemed inevitable. Yet, his story shows that understanding your environment, finding support, embracing new interests, and staying self-aware can lead to sobriety

Ever think there's a connection between putting together IKEA furniture and getting sober?   The step to sobriety is much like the methodical assembly of those Scandinavian flat-pack puzzles. Each piece, much like each day in sobriety, is a step in the right direction, building a stronger, more resilient self. The way you tackle those flat-pack puzzles reflects how you approach life's challenges.  What works for one person might not work for you.

This podcast is here to guide you through that assembly process, in a way that's both informative and entertaining. Welcome to Flat-Pack Sober!

Curious about what it takes to embrace sobriety and transform your life? 

In this episode, we sit down with James Kachnoskie to explore his inspiring journey to recovery. Originally from a coal mining town in Pennsylvania, James candidly shares the impact of alcohol on his life and his pivotal decision to quit drinking after a reckless New Year's Eve in the UK.

James reflects on the crucial role of community support and self-discovery through passions like martial arts and running. He discusses the emotional challenges he faced and the profound significance of creating a purpose-driven life, particularly as a father.

This episode offers deep reflections on the emotional and psychological aspects of sobriety, providing inspiration and practical advice for anyone seeking positive change.

This is how James built the sober life he wanted. If James’s story resonates with you or you're on a similar path, remember that you're not alone. There's a whole community out there ready to support you. Until next time, keep building your life, one sober piece at a time.

Transcript

Automatically Transcribed With Podsqueeze

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:00:00  Hey there, sober superstars! Welcome to another episode of Flatpack sober, your catalogue of tips, tricks and tactics to design your alcohol free life. My guest today was born and raised in the rough and tumble coal district of Pennsylvania, but now he lives in the United Kingdom with one wife and two beautiful children, who he reliably ensures, assures me keep giving him colds. But of course, that journey from Pennsylvania to the UK was not necessarily an entirely smooth one, as I'm sure we are going to find out. And that's the kind of thing that he also shares on his own podcast, addictively speaking. So give a big, warm, flatpack sober welcome to James Kaczynski. James, thank you very much for joining us today.

James Kachnoskie 00:00:45  I thank you for having me, Duncan, I appreciate it. Excited about this. Because of our previous conversation we had getting to know each other. So yeah, super excited.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:00:52  Yes. And for the people who are only listening and not watching, I should probably point out that James is wearing a Philadelphia Eagles jumper this evening.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:01:02  So, any sort of NFL based abuse that he gets from me, it's his own fault. So, before we before we get too deeply into, into that sort of stuff, I have to ask you the obligatory flatpack question. So I presume you're familiar with Ikea?

James Kachnoskie 00:01:20  Yes.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:01:21  Yeah. So if I gave you some Ikea furniture, what would be your approach to assembling it?

James Kachnoskie 00:01:26  Oh, man. Ikea furniture. It's, I, I'm a visual guy. I like the I'll look at the picture, I look at the pictures, and then I just try to suss it all out, like with, like, do you know what I mean? Like, I'll start a look at the picture and be like, how does it go into that? And then kind of like pick out the pieces that I think should be here or there. yeah. That's basically my approach to an Ikea piece of furniture.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:01:54  So there's a bit of a look at the instructions, but for much more from a visual point of view, rather than like, from, from a wordy kind of point of view, and then you sort of get stuck into it.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:02:05  Would that be a fair way of saying it?

James Kachnoskie 00:02:06  Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I look at it and, you know, I'm the guy who, like takes the box and I'm like holding the picture on the box. And I'm like, how does it turn into that? And then I kind of like start moving pieces around and then yeah, I just, you know, I make sure that I have all my screws and my bolts and whatever, like, you know, you know, how they give you like the A, B, C and then the, you know, they get real intricate with it and then they're giving like C sub sections and you're like, I don't know what that is, but I'll try to fix it or put it in wherever. But yeah, that's basically my starting point.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:02:36  So I'm getting this kind of strong sense of of giving it a go. is that sort of your approach to life in general? Is that if you've got a problem, do you just kind of get stuck in or are you a bit more reflective?

James Kachnoskie 00:02:48  Yeah, I kind of just kind of go for it.

James Kachnoskie 00:02:50  Like I'll just go into it and like, my mom always was like one of those kind of people who who like, you know, like if you if you think you can do something like, you can, you can do it like you can just you will it into existence, like whatever you want to do, just like do it, go out and do it and then do whatever it takes to get that done. So yeah, that's kind of what, like I've done most of my life is kind of like, find something I want, go after it and then smash it that Find that thing and smash it.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:03:18  Oh. It's nice. So the reason why I like to start with this question is I like people to get a bit of a flavor of who you are and where you're coming from. So we talk a lot about the sober styles, and I get the strong impression that you're probably the Dynamo style you like to to get involved, get things done. not so much of a book learner or of a practical kind of a person.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:03:43  And I think if we can establish that to start off with, it kind of can color people's view of what what you're saying, the things that have worked for you are not necessarily going to work for them, because if you do kind of like to to learn things in a more theoretical way, then some of what you're going to say is probably not going to gel too well with them. But that said, if it doesn't gel with you too well, that's sometimes an indication that you really ought to be doing it, isn't it? But we will get into that in a little bit. So, I gave you a very, very quick intro there, but tell everybody, a little bit more about yourself. All right.

James Kachnoskie 00:04:19  so I was born and raised in Shamokin, Pennsylvania. It's a tiny coal mining town in the center of Pennsylvania. I mean, it's a tiny little speck on the map. There probably won't be able to find it if you tried. It was known for coal mining. it's a very, like, hard working, you know, middle class type of people.

James Kachnoskie 00:04:38  They're, you know, they used to say that there's a bar on every corner and a church on every other. so there was always, you know, heavily heavy drinking involved in, in where we grew up. I mean, it's just the people, the culture there. So I grew up most of my life there. I didn't move out of the town until I was about 28. I moved out when I was about 28. I moved to an adjacent coal mining town with a little bit bigger, a little bit more people, a little different vibe, because in my hometown I was a bit notorious for being drunk and angry and violent. So I moved out. I try to get away a little bit, give myself some space. So I moved out and moved to a different place and and started, you know, living there and doing the same sorts of things I was doing with my hometown. Yeah. And then, you know, when that all finished, I, you know, I drank for a while.

James Kachnoskie 00:05:28  I got reckless for a while, I lost jobs, I went crazy, I did a bunch of crazy shit, and, Yeah. And then I, found sobriety, met a nice girl from the UK, and then. Yeah, basically chased her down and we got married. She moved to the States, which was a pain in the ass to do. don't immigrate ever. Because it is complicated and expensive and all kind of stuff. so yeah. So we did that, and then we found out we were going to be parents and move back over here. and now we're living in the UK. Been here six years. I work as a manager at a restaurant in Gatwick Airport. assistant manager. but do management work for about eight years now. So. Yeah. And then I've been. I'm 12 years sober.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:06:16  So I do like the fact that you, like, moved over here, but didn't really get much further than the airports. No.

James Kachnoskie 00:06:23  Yeah, yeah.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:06:26  So, tell us a little bit more about how you got sober.

James Kachnoskie 00:06:30  I had moved out of my hometown where I was having most of my problems. I had a lot of trouble there. I was getting myself into a lot of shit, and I thought I needed to get away. So this was like, the beginning of it all. I moved away because in my hometown, I was surrounded by people who were doing like that negative thing, and I was just just engulfed in it. I was just deep in it and I needed some separation. So I moved away and then it was like a gradual process really, because like, I continue to do the same kind of behavior, you know, the drinking, the over drinking that, you know, I did it for years. So it was just what I did, you know, I finally got to a point where, I was living in a really tiny apartment, and it was in a basement of a building. It was like living in hell. Like I lived in like a dungeon. And it was really depressing and dark all the time because there was only like, it was really weird because it's like street level windows, because you guys don't have basements, so you don't really know what that's like.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:07:27  But like basically we watched the TV. They don't. Basements always look really, really cool on American, TV shows. But you're telling us they're not?

James Kachnoskie 00:07:37  No, it's not cool. Not when you live in one. Now. Living in one's not that great. I mean, maybe if you're like a, you know, a 21 year old kid, like a, you know, a young guy. But I was like in my late 20s, early 30s, living in a basement of a, like an apartment building. So it was like a big build. It was like a bigger building. And I was on the bottom of it. I had the furnace next to me, like when people turn their heat on, like it would be like, oh, and it would be like 100 degrees in my in my apartment. It was bad. so I lived there, and I was just kind of like, you know, trying to figure out what I was going to do in my life. And if this was it, like, was I just going to continue being drunk on a Thursday, Friday, Saturday? Because I kind of got myself together where I could keep a job, couldn't keep a job for years.

James Kachnoskie 00:08:24  And I finally got myself to, to, like, keep a job. And it was a decent job. It was all right. So I was doing that. And then I, I met a girl and she had a two year old, and I was with her and I was trying to figure out like, well, yeah, what my life looked like, trying to be a father or like pretending to be a father at this point. Like trying seeing what that was like, and and realizing that alcohol and me and parenting and that type of relationship wasn't going to work. so I basically I went out on a New Year's Eve and got absolutely wrecked. threw up all over my buddy's house, all over his bathroom, all over his bedroom. I basically had to drag me out of the bathroom and into bed, and I was pretty incoherent. And then they, Well, obviously I woke up the next morning, ruined everybody's plans by being too drunk that I couldn't go anywhere. We couldn't even go out.

James Kachnoskie 00:09:23  I had to just get in the car and we had to go home. So it was a friend of mine from work, my girlfriend at the time, and we drove all the way back to Pennsylvania from Maryland, which is like a 2.5 hour drive. And like every 45 minutes I stopped to throw up. Just I was like, pull over, pull over. I need to throw up. I need to throw up. So we get back and I start kind of like thinking about that, like, you know, like, what was the point of that? Like, why did I do that? Like what? What was the why? What the I ruined everybody's time and my own by being so drunk. So it gets to like mid January. So I didn't make my New Year's resolution on New Year's. I saved it for later in the month when I, I, we were just out of her house and we were putting we put her son to bed, and I drank a bottle of rum on like, a Wednesday night, and I was like, why am I doing this? So I drank the bottle.

James Kachnoskie 00:10:13  I still drank the bottle anyway. Finished it, went to bed, woke up the next day and I was like, nah, I ain't going to work no more. I can't do this. So I basically I, you know, I went, I went home, I went to work, I went and did whatever. And by the end of the day, I was like, that's it, I'm done. I'm not gonna drink anymore. Then I text message to all my friends and I was like, hey, I have a problem. I can't live my life like this. If I want happiness, if I want a family, if I want a job, if I want a future, I can't continue my life this way. Like it's just not. It's going to go nowhere. Something will happen. I'll mess something up. I'll go too far. And I was just like, I can't do that. I can't do that. If I decide that I want to be a father, like an actual I have my own children, then I can't live like this.

James Kachnoskie 00:11:05  So then I, I just that was it, I was done, I quit that day. And, you know, it's 12 years later and I haven't looked back. I've done amazing things with my life since then. So, I mean, it was all in all, it was probably the best thing I could have done for myself.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:11:22  Yeah, I hear that a lot. Yeah. What I get from that is there's this this kind of strong feeling about the impact that it was having on other people, but also this strong feeling about how it was really impacting on who you wanted to be. And you know, the things that you wanted to do in your life and realizing that you'd never get to do them if you kept on drinking.

James Kachnoskie 00:11:45  Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that was that was the whole thing. And it was admitting and and absolutely admitting that that it was a problem, that it wasn't just, you know, oh, he oh, he drinks a little bit too much. It gets a little crazy.

James Kachnoskie 00:12:00  It wasn't I wasn't a fun drunk. I wasn't like a I was over I was I was bad, you know, and I had to accept that that was that was who I was. And in order to have the things I wanted, I had to not be that person, because that person would fuck all that up instantly, in an instant and then wake up and wonder what happened, you know? So yeah, it was, it was about the the people that I affected around me and admitting in myself that it was an actual problem, and then telling everybody else that I thought it was a problem and they should just agree with me.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:12:35  There is a lot of that in society, isn't there, that kind of like, oh, well, you know, you just had a few too many on the weekend, but hey, yeah, it happens to all of us. There's a lot of that kind of minimization thing. but, you know, it was kind of clearing that away and, and being really honest with yourself.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:12:53  That was another important part then.

James Kachnoskie 00:12:55  Yeah, absolutely. Was was being being vulnerable enough to accept that I'm not I don't drink like everybody else drinks. I'm not the cool. Let's have a couple brews and kick back and get a buzz. I'm the let's drink 30 beers, do 15 shots, go to jail. That's not a fun time. Not for anybody. Nobody has fun in that situation. And that wasn't like, oh, it happened once or twice. That was like my life for 11 years, on and off, getting arrested for fighting. Like, what life was I going to have? What life would I lead? You know, so I just I had to accept it. I had to own it. I had to make sure that my friends didn't minimize it, and they just accepted it and didn't pressure me into anything. And luckily, the people that I had around me, like my core group of friends, like, were like, okay, yeah, man, if that's what you want to do, then we'll support you, you know? Because it could go left, it could go left, and you could be out with your friends and they could be like, well, we just have one, you know, and try to just, like, ruin the whole thing, like by peer pressuring or causing it to be awkward.

James Kachnoskie 00:14:08  which they didn't, which was amazing because then I knew that I had the right people around me.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:14:12  Yeah, yeah, I know. It kind of strikes me that what you just said is the definition of friends, isn't it? You know, they will meet you where you're at, and they will support you with what you want, and they will love you unconditionally, won't they? And people who give you that kind of hard time and like go and just have the one that is not the definition of a friend, is it? No.

James Kachnoskie 00:14:34  And those are the kind of people that I surrounded myself with before, when I lived in my hometown. And those if I was around those people and that was my circle of friends, I would have crashed and burned. You know, they wouldn't have accepted what I was telling them because they were all doing what I was doing. So they would have just been like, because, you know, when everybody's doing the same thing, like, and one person admits that they have a problem, then everybody in the group is like, oh, well, I don't have no problem.

James Kachnoskie 00:15:02  I don't have a problem, I don't have a problem. You you have the problem. And they kind of think like, oh, oh shit, maybe I do have a problem. But you know, they don't. They're not going to admit it. So then they make you feel invalid in your thing and they'll just try to talk you down out of it. And then the next thing you know, you're drinking again. So yeah, I'm lucky that I had the friends that I had at that time to be with me.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:15:24  Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think we talk a lot about, you know, community and connection and friendship on this podcast. And I mean, I think it's it's enormously important. And I sounds like it was a big thing for you as well.

James Kachnoskie 00:15:39  Oh yeah. Yeah. Like my my core group of friends. Yeah. I mean, we all, I, I'm like miles and miles away from, you know, like we still talk. We keep in touch.

James Kachnoskie 00:15:50  You know, they still support everything. I do like with my podcast and stuff like that, they ask how it's going. They're, you know, they're like super proud of me and what I've accomplished with my sobriety. I mean, you know, they've really, like, backed me 100%. Like getting getting sober and staying sober, you know. So yeah, it's it's it's good to have that. Those type of people behind you.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:16:13  Yeah. Friends. friends. Give your podcast a five star review on Apple don't they. That's. Yeah.

James Kachnoskie 00:16:20  Well yeah I mean hopefully and if they don't then you have to call them up and tell them that. What are you doing?

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:16:26  I certainly dropped that in just in case any of my friends had lipstick. Yeah.

James Kachnoskie 00:16:29  Yeah. Right. Yeah. Guys, everybody get out there and leave some five star reviews because. Yeah, yeah.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:16:34  Typically speaking, once you've done that one flat packs over. Yeah. No.

James Kachnoskie 00:16:37  Excellent packs over.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:16:39  Yeah. So what do you think the biggest thing is that's helped you stay sober? If you were going to like, pick one thing, what would it be?

James Kachnoskie 00:16:47  One thing.

James Kachnoskie 00:16:48  I mean, I imagine it's meeting my wife, meeting my wife and starting a family. Starting the thing that I set out to do when I got sober. Like the thing that I wanted the most. The reason behind getting sober and doing all that thing was because I wanted a family. I wanted to have what my parents wanted for me, you know, growing up like, you know, and I always wanted a family. I always thought, like, when I was younger, I wanted to be a dad. I wanted to be. I wanted to be a father. I wanted I wanted that type of thing, things in my life. And, yeah, that was the kind of that was the thing that made it worthwhile. Like, it's making it, you know, I, I have the, I have the chance to wake up every day and get the look at my, my two sons and think, you know, I never thought these moments would be possible. You know, ten, ten, 12 years ago, I would have never had these moments or I wasn't in a place that I could have these moments.

James Kachnoskie 00:17:39  And now I'm lucky enough that I have, you know, two happy, healthy little boys that drive me up a wall and test my patience and make me question the choices I've made in life. But, I mean, they make it all worth it. I mean, that's the whole thing is, you know, those guys.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:17:56  I'm with you on that one. And I think it's kind of really interesting because it's something that does come up every now and again. You know, either the idea of, of, of wanting to have children and realizing that, like, alcohol is going to get in the way of that. I mean, it's, you know, a bottle of rum and kids not not that compatible, are they? Not like, you know, get up in the middle of the night, to change a nappy. It's not going to happen if you're blind drunk on this. That is a pretty common motivation, I think. And and a really good one. And a really, really strong one.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:18:32  So have you made any any big changes? Well, I mean, starting a family that's fairly big, but have you made any other big changes since you've got sober?

James Kachnoskie 00:18:39  I mean, I've done a lot of things. Once I got sober, I mean, I felt like everything was attainable. You know, I kind of like I lived in a world where I aspired. I aspired to be nothing. I aspired to do nothing. I had no goals. I had no I had no motivation. So getting sober was a chance to, like, get my mind clear. It had me think about life in a different way, become very like, reflective of myself, and kind of look at myself in a different way. Once I got like, real like, like sober for a couple of years, you kind of like, look at yourself a bit differently. Think about some of the things that happened in your past, and maybe they're the reason why. Or you just start to analyze things. So I ended up doing a lot of stuff when I got sober.

James Kachnoskie 00:19:23  I first went into martial arts, boxing, kickboxing, jiu jitsu. because I thought I was a tough guy. I like to fight. I got know a lot of bar fights. I got into scraps and I thought, what do real tough guys do? What a tough people do. What? They go in and they fight and then they keep fighting. And then. So I got into that really for a while. That was like my thing, like straight out of, drinking. I went right into that. So I started doing that. Then I started to challenge myself more. I pushed myself a little harder. I started doing, jiu jitsu competitions to, to, you know, just to test my skill there, just to push myself. So, I started doing jiu jitsu, tournaments, winning, winning a couple of tournaments, doing things like that. I joined a recovery group called The Scoop Recovers, which is kind of shortened for Schuylkill. Schuylkill County was where we were living at the time.

James Kachnoskie 00:20:16  So they, my buddy, me and him got sober at the same time. So I did that, did a little bit of recovery work, like school speaking. yeah. Speaking to kids, you know, there's no tougher audience than, a group of 15 year olds who just think you're like a twat and they don't want to. They don't want to hear anything you're saying. And I've sat in a room. I've sat in a room full of them, you know, talking about my my journey, you know, just hoping that it helps somebody. So I did that. And then once I got done with that, I mean, obviously the next biggest thing was, we we decided we were going to move. my mom and dad had passed. My mom had passed in 2015, my dad the following year. So my wife was in the United States. We finally got the the visa done, and we ended up with her in the United States. For a while we were in the same country, but it only took a year and six months when it should have only took about six months.

James Kachnoskie 00:21:13  But, you know, governments and what have you. so we found out we were going to be parents, so we decided that we were going to relocate to the UK. So, I mean, that was a massive change in my life. I started to have aspirations. I was working, I moved, I worked my way up to management. So I started to build myself like a life as far as, like, work and a career. I had goals, you know? I didn't want to just be just exist in life with no purpose or no, you know, things to move me forward. So, yeah, I started working in management and I thought, you know, that'll be my career. I'll do a career in management and, you know, moved over here, moved in my in-laws for three and a half years, worked and worked and worked and saved and bought a house and yeah, did all the did it all, like full adulting, you know, became a parent.

James Kachnoskie 00:22:07  You know, just adulthood at the highest level of adulting. I mean.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:22:11  Elite adult.

James Kachnoskie 00:22:12  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, my wife would probably, disagree with my level of adulting, but I mean, you know, I'm a man.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:22:20  But I'm not interviewing her. So, yeah, I'm a man.

James Kachnoskie 00:22:22  And, you know, I have my limits. Okay? You know, I'm not I'm not that great at everything, adult wise, so I'll do my best.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:22:32  No, but what I what I sort of like what what I see is quite a strong theme. There is, there's, there's that kind of like self-awareness and figuring out who you are. but also that, that going hand in hand with kind of figuring out what you want from life, what? Well, you're here to do and and adding meaning and purpose. And you know, that being in very stark contrast to, to to the bad old days when you were drinking.

James Kachnoskie 00:23:02  Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

James Kachnoskie 00:23:04  Because I didn't have anything and I didn't care to have anything. I was just trying to drown everything out and numb everything. And then like, you know, like people don't realize when you get sober like that, like you have to, like, figure out life again. to figure out, like, what it is and how to deal with it and how to deal with, like, now you have all these emotions and feelings and shit that you just would drink away or drug away like you. You now have to figure out, oh, what do I do with this? How do I process this? How do I cope with this? And yeah, you have to come up with a new way of life and a new way to be. Who you are and who you are is different from who you were and what pieces of who you were or coming with you on this journey. I said, in one of my podcasts not too long ago. Like, coming into sobriety is like dumping a jigsaw puzzle out and dumping all the pieces on.

James Kachnoskie 00:23:55  So you got to find the pieces, you got to find the edge pieces and start putting it together like that. And then you build it into the center, and, you know, you take some old pieces of who you were and some new pieces from who you're going to be. And you just put this puzzle together and, you know, sometimes it's it's incomplete and you're putting pieces in the wrong places and, you know, because you're just trying to figure it all out, you know, by no stretch of the imagination. Do I have anything figured out? I mean, I, you know, I function in life at the best level I can and I do the best I can. And, you know, I'm always going to be a work in progress. But at least I have purpose, I have goals, I have motivation sometimes more than others. But, you know.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:24:35  We're all a work in progress. we just some of us are actually doing the work. That's the difference. And like.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:24:41  That's true. Yeah. Now, you you mentioned, feelings and, you know, you also mentioned that you're a man, so maybe we shouldn't stray too, too far into the territory of emotion. But, I mean, that's the ultimate adult adulting, isn't it? You know, having having a grown up relationship and talking about emotions and feelings. So. And have you done anything that has really helped with that?

James Kachnoskie 00:25:05  Yeah. I'm not I obviously I'm not great with emotion. I'm not great with any of that stuff. I think I bury a lot of shit. I think that's what my coping skill is, is berry berry, berry bury and not good. It's not a good coping skill, but like, I think I compartmentalize some stuff as well, I did I have done therapy. I have done a little, cognitive behavioral therapy. I had a therapist for a while before Covid, because I was in a, I have these moments where I get into some really dark places, depression and anxiety and whatnot, and.

James Kachnoskie 00:25:38  Yeah, just. Yeah, I find life difficult sometimes. So yeah. So I've tried to work through a lot of the past traumas in my life, in the past, you know, painful moments like losing my parents and stuff. Like it's still hard. I try to just let myself have those moments and cry and let myself feel that that that stuff. Because it's okay to feel it. It's okay to feel it and let it, let it out. but I am one of those people who let's the. I had a therapist one time tell me that. Like like, when you, you know, when you fill a glass up too high and you drip one drip of water in, it overflows. That's what emotions are like in your body. And if you let them build up too high, that one drop could be anything. Could be anything. Somebody could say something to you, and the next thing you know, you're in tears or you're all upset or you're angry or whatever. The emotion comes out because it has to.

James Kachnoskie 00:26:25  yeah. I'm usually like three quarters of the way full, and then it just takes it just takes a little bit of time before I'm at the top and then I'm, you know, I'm having an emotional moment where, you know, I usually get that way when I don't have a lot of sleep. sometimes if I'm too tired, I get emotionally, all over the place. I'm out. I can get really emotional about, like, my boys and, like, missing my mom and then thinking that I wish my mom could have seen this and. Yeah. So, you know, it's it's all a work in progress. It's all work. I'm all try. I always try to figure it out. I'll do the best I can with it. Sometimes I'm better than others. I shut down, overwhelmed with shit. I just, I tried to, like, I just shut off.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:27:07  Oh, no. No, man, it sounds like you are really, really working at it. So you can definitely have extra elite adult points from from me.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:27:16  That and I do like that analogy of, the glass and it being perilously full because, I mean, that was that was me when I was drinking, you know, it was like the glass was always perilously full, and we were sloshing the liquid around everywhere, and I was constantly spilling emotions all over the kitchen floor, going to a lot of trouble for doing that. So, yeah. Yeah, that's that's some good stuff. Now, you mentioned sleep. I'm a little bit obsessed with sleep at the moment. Do you, do you do anything in particular to, to promote your sleep, or is it just as, as well as you can with, with small kids?

James Kachnoskie 00:27:54  Yeah. I mean, I try to get I usually do better with more sleep. I'm usually more, I have better patients. I have better understanding. but. yeah, with with young kids, five year old still wakes up in the night. Sometimes screams that a daddy and I get in there and he's like, can you talk me in? And I'm like, you woke me up at 230 in the morning to tuck you in, to pull the cover over you.

James Kachnoskie 00:28:21  and then I, you know, I politely pull the cover over him and be like, I love you, buddy. And then I go back to bed, and I lay there for 32 minutes before I can fall back asleep. And then my alarm goes off and I have to go to work. And then I cry slowly as I get on the bus. But yeah, no, I do the best I can to to get as much, you know, I go to bed earlier, I work early shifts, so I usually go to bed, you know, by half 8 or 9:00. I try to get, I try to get at least six, seven hours.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:28:49  Yeah. Yeah. It's one of those ironies in life, isn't it? You know what? Think of a period of of your life when you need most patience and understanding. it's when you have small kids. Think of a period of your life where you're going to get at least sleep, and. Yeah, yeah, I get that a lot.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:29:06  I got a little bit resentful with my daughter. I'm just like, why don't you just scream mummy in the middle of the night? Just. Just once, you know? Are there any products that you use that you think are particularly useful, that help you with, staying sober?

James Kachnoskie 00:29:23  Products? I mean, my my thing that usually is my go to for my sobriety is like my sanity as well is running. I got into running when I got sober, I started running a lot. I hated it before. And then I got into it. And yeah, I just love to go out and run and just listen to music and kind of like, let my mind because it like, gets all the good, you know, endorphins and all the, all the good dopamine going in your brain. So if you're feeling like in a crappy mood or you're feeling a bit depressed, I mean, even if you go out for, like, a ten minute jog, like, it'll lift your spirits, it'll change your mood.

James Kachnoskie 00:30:01  And I find that, like, tremendously helpful. if I feel like things are a bit too much at home and I'm just feeling a bit, you know, if I go out and I have, like, a 30 minute run, get a couple miles in, I come back and I can usually get myself in a better place mentally. And yeah, that's kind of like my go to thing. other than that, like, product wise, I don't really use anything, you know, just drink a lot of water. Stay hydrated. Super. Yeah. Super hydrated.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:30:33  How much do you do? What's what's your what's your your daily total for the for the H2O.

James Kachnoskie 00:30:39  Oh, God, I do you know what? I don't even keep track. But sometimes when I'm at work I'm like, well this has got to be like 5 or 6 glasses of water already. And then like I have at home, like I have this, like little blue bottle right here, but then I have like a bigger one.

James Kachnoskie 00:30:50  I'm like, why do you need two bottles in there? I was like, well, if I finish one and I'm American, so I like cold water. I don't drink it out of the tap. And I know that like over here, she's like, well, you could just fill it up in the top. And I'm like, it's not cold, so it has to be cold.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:31:04  Oh it is, it is cold this time of the year. But, there we go. So. Yeah. So, so that pair of trainers and some headphones, that's, that that's the kind of ticket. And you know what? What? I constantly get surprised about a lot of people, they talk about physical exercise and they always talk about the mental benefits. If you talk about the physical benefits of it. And of course, those are legion. But it's that kind of clearing your mind thing and getting a bit of clarity and sort of, you know, getting some space that that's what you really value about it.

James Kachnoskie 00:31:40  Yeah, I mean I'll go out if I'm like if I'm having some anxiety or I'm stressed or I feel a bit, you know, overwhelmed by stuff or, you know, because, you know, obviously like home life, it's difficult. You know, two kids running around. Mommy, daddy. We don't have a huge house. We're on top of each other. So it's a lot at one time. And, you know, yeah, you just need I just if I just get out and I have, I have like a 25 minute run, it can just turn everything around mentally for me, you know, gets me in a more positive headspace. yeah. Sometimes too. Like, I use it like, I'll, you know, be thinking about, things I want to do for my podcast. They're like things at work, like, what do I want to do next in my job? Like, where do I want to go? What do I want to do? Like, what's the future look like? It just gives you a space to kind of like be alone with your thoughts and also like, you know, listen to this music and kind of like you can it's weird that you can do all those things at like one time, like it's all it's all happening at once, but it's okay.

James Kachnoskie 00:32:36  yeah. So I just, I just use it as a, as a tool to help me stay focused and stay positive, you know, in a more positive headspace. See, I.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:32:45  Think that's really interesting as well, isn't it? Because we kind of like, we sort of want to cram our attention, don't we? You know, it's like nobody ever queues anymore. They just line up with their phones and it's like, I've got 30s. I cannot possibly be not entertained for 30s. I better, you know, check snap to gram or whatever it is. And, you know, it's actually kind of like it's almost like you're forcing yourself to be away from that, sort of like totally immersive digital experience that life can become if we're not too careful.

James Kachnoskie 00:33:22  you know what? And my wife tells me that I have. I checked my phone all the time. I do have a problem with it. And I think it's due to the fact that I obviously I have, like, that personality, that addictive trait where, like, I just I'm looking at it, but I'm looking at it for no reason, like I'm just looking at it and I don't know why.

James Kachnoskie 00:33:38  And then you get so far into it that you're just like, oh, I've really kind of lost myself in this, you know? And I feel like sometimes I, you know, I she, she does tell me that I need to put it down and I just find it so difficult. I'm like, oh, what if what if I need to look at something? Why? I do have to. I do have to take her advice on that one, because I do get immersed in it. So yeah, I mean.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:34:03  Look, I doubt either of us is particularly, you know, a huge fan of the alcohol industry, and I, I doubt either of us are going to roll out any apologies on their behalf, but at least alcohol was kind of an accident, wasn't it? You know, it's like, fermentation. It's a natural process. And, you know, it kind of happened and, yeah, we discovered you could do it with, with various different types of liquid, create various different types of flavor.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:34:27  Facebook, on the other hand, was designed to make you addictive. You know, those are just like they created it to enslave you. That's what it is for.

James Kachnoskie 00:34:37  Yeah. And now they collect all your data to make sure that they can keep you there, you know, which is crazy, but I mean, again, you know, with addiction in general, I it is one of those things that it's like, if that's who you are, that's who you are and it's you you'll find your way to be. What I've realized about myself is that I have trouble moderating. I don't know how to moderate. I don't do things moderately. I couldn't drink in moderation, I can't some I can't eat in moderation. I, I when I started running, I couldn't run in moderation. I was always like, well, I need to get up and run two miles today. And even if I, even if I was tired or my legs hurt or wow, I just I would just run two miles, I would just run two miles and then I'd get done and be like, okay, now I can do my day.

James Kachnoskie 00:35:24  And it got to the point where it was a bit extreme. You know, when my wife moved over, I bought a treadmill and I'd flip it down and we'd be going out and like 20 minutes and I'd be like, let me just hop on a treadmill. I'll run a quick mile, I'll run it in eight minutes, and then I'll get changed. And she's like, are you joking? And I'm like, nope. I felt compelled to do it. I felt like really compelled to do it. And if I didn't, I'd get anxious if I didn't do it. I've learned now more to like to to be more, moderate with things. But yeah, there's still things that like creep in that I, I still I have to figure, I have to look at it and go, you're going too far. Pull it back.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:36:03  Such an amazing analogy for for life in that way that the problem with children is that as soon as you figure out what they need and what they want, then they grow up a little bit and then it all changes and you have to figure it all out again.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:36:19  And I reckon life is basically a little bit like that. You kind of, you get yourself into a routine, you think, well, I've got this nailed, I've got this mastered and then something else comes along and you then have to incorporate that, and that pushes something else out. And then you've got to kind of rejig the balance. and yeah. Yeah. You just kind of got to keep trying, haven't you?

James Kachnoskie 00:36:41  Yeah, yeah. It's like trial and error and you just. I was just being aware of it sometimes, you know, like, I'm aware that I don't moderate well. So I have to kind of be better with, like, accepting, you know, like now, like I run when I can. I go to the gym when I can. I've tried to stop myself from, like, eating too much or eating overeating or eating in excess, or eating when I'm not hungry, you know what I mean? Like things like that. So I just have to keep an eye on it and make sure that that's like, you know, I'm aware that it's happening, at least if I'm aware that it's happening, then I can either try to do stuff to, you know, mitigate it as best I can.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:37:22  Yeah, yeah. No, I so often we just end up coming back to self awareness don't we. And yeah, just without awareness there is no action. You can't do it. You can't solve a problem unless you know you've got a problem and you can't know you've got a problem unless you're aware of it. So we come back to that again. so what do you say? That you're beyond alcohol?

James Kachnoskie 00:37:48  Beyond alcohol? I don't know. I mean, I know that it's never an option for me in life. You know, people will say, like, why don't you drink like a non-alcoholic? Or it freaks me out. It freaks me out Like the taste of it freaks me out like I don't. I can't do it. It just triggers something in my mind that I know, I know, I know I can't be that person who has it. I can't have it. I can't have something that tastes like it. I can't have, like, you know, so yeah, I just I don't know if I'm ever beyond it.

James Kachnoskie 00:38:22  I don't know if you're ever beyond something like that, but, you know, I just think that I know that I can't have it. I know that I should never have it. And as long as I keep that in the forefront of my mind, that I'll do the best I can to never drink again, you know that that'll be my focus for the rest of my life, is to make sure that I never, never become that person I was. Because that person isn't the person that can exist in this world that I have built. Yeah, I just know I can never have it.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:38:50  Yeah. And it doesn't sound like you're missing it a whole bunch now.

James Kachnoskie 00:38:55  No, I don't really think about it.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:38:56  We always say things like, oh, I don't think about alcohol very much and then record podcasts about it.

James Kachnoskie 00:39:02  Yeah. And talk about it constantly and then talk about it. Yeah, but I.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:39:06  Talked me over. It just made a career out of it, that's all.

James Kachnoskie 00:39:10  yeah.

James Kachnoskie 00:39:11  It's like that ex-girlfriend that left you, and you're like, I don't even care about her anymore. You know, I don't even. I don't even know what she's doing. I checked her Facebook the other day, but yeah, it's that it's that 100% like you just. You're over it, but, like, listen, it's. I don't like it. I mean, honestly, I think like, as a society where we're so accepting of it and it's everywhere and even especially in the UK, I mean, she's more so in the UK than in the US. I mean, you guys are like a pint at 7 a.m., pint at noon and a pint in the evening. And it's like very in the culture.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:39:44  There is literally a bar across the road from my front door and we. It's it. It's Wetherspoons. You might have, you know, the franchise. We. Yeah. It's a lovely. High class thing. We very occasionally go there for breakfast. And every time we do there are 3 or 4 people drinking and it's like, do it 8 a.m. what are you doing? but yes, well, there is a lot, a lot wrong with our with our culture.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:40:14  never mind, never mind. Right. So, before I let you go. Yeah. I have to ask you, I have to take it back to Ikea. Of course. have you ever had the meatballs?

James Kachnoskie 00:40:26  Yes. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It was one of the, when I first moved over here. we went up to the Ikea in, in Croydon. The big one with the stacks. And my wife is like, have you ever had the meatballs? And I was like, no. She's like, oh my God, you have to have the meatballs. And we went and I absolutely demolished two lots of them. They were impressed. I absolutely. And I was like, these are amazing. And then I was trapped in Ikea for about 17 hours trying to get the hell out because it just it's just like a one way system of of buying stuff, of never getting at. They're geniuses, honestly. Like they trap you in there. You have to go through for miles to get out.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:41:07  Did you know another interesting thing about Ikea? All of the products are actually swear words in Swedish.

James Kachnoskie 00:41:14  No.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:41:15  All of those product names, they're all very, very rude.

James Kachnoskie 00:41:19  Oh that's.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:41:19  Amazing. Anyway, so, like, I think you're the first guest that's actually totally and utterly proved my point about the Ikea meatballs. Sort of. So it's like when you go to Ikea, you have to have the meatballs. That is literally what your wife said to you didn't didn't you? Yes, yes. Now, you slightly perverted my idea because you're not supposed to like the meatballs. It's supposed to be this idea that you have to have them when you go to Ikea, but you don't actually like them. You've just got to do it because you're an idea. Which leads me into this question. Like, what is the one thing in sobriety that everybody should do, but nobody really wants to do.

James Kachnoskie 00:41:56  The one thing in sobriety that everybody should do that nobody wants to do? Oh man, that is a yo.

James Kachnoskie 00:42:04  That is a really good question. This might have just broken my brain. Stay sober. Stay sober. I mean, that's the goal, isn't it? You should stay sober. I mean, I don't know, I mean, the one thing that you should do that, that you know, that everybody doesn't do is, like, obviously, like people that drink, like, I find myself in places that are serving alcohol all the time. Is that probably the best place I work in a place that serves alcohol all the time. So it's like, am I really doing myself any favors? Probably not. But I mean, it's life and I have to kind of just deal with it and like, you know, get on with it. Like it's my job. You know, I've had moments where I've been at work and I smelled something and was like, oh, my brain was like, oh, we like that. I made a margarita one time and I was like, oh, the smell of that was really nice.

James Kachnoskie 00:42:55  So I had to, like, take myself away and be like, okay, get your shit together and walk away.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:43:01  Yeah. You see, I think that points out a very real tension that, you know, if if we were going to sit down and really talk politics and talk about the, the way we would like to change society, you know, the way we would doubtless, you know, get an advertising, get an education for young people. You hinted at that already. You know, we would look at licensing, we look at availability, we look at pricing, we look at all of those kind of things that, you know, many, many things in society that need to change. That is part of our mission. But at the end of the day, we've got to live in the society as it is currently structured and we've got to find a way to do that. And I think that's that's the other thing that we need to do. We need to to help people find a way to exist.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:43:48  And, you know, if if they work in the hospitality industry, then yes, they are. They need to meet people like you and, you know, see that there is a way of, of of managing a restaurant and still being sober.

James Kachnoskie 00:44:04  Yeah. And I think, you know, people in recovery need to find other people in recovery and or people that are doing it, or people that have the time in, and just look at different ways of recovery. You know, I know, you know, people get like into AA and that's like their thing and like, you know, and that's great. But like, that doesn't work for everybody. And I think like with our shows like in general like you're giving people the opportunity to see how other people do it and what their things are that work for them. And like people can like pick and choose and like, see what works. and, you know, some of these tools that were handing out could be helpful to people in the future.

James Kachnoskie 00:44:43  You know, they could be in a rough spot and think, oh, you know, I heard a podcast once where this guy said, so-and-so. And then, you know, it can help them, you know, and that's the that's the goal is to, like, show people that recovery isn't one size fits all. It's not everybody does the same thing. Everybody has a different story. We're bonded by the same thing, the addiction and the issues. But we all recovered in a different manner and a different way. So yeah.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:45:10  I don't think you can do anything but realize that once you've interviewed a few people. And yeah, to be to be completely and utterly fair, I have met a lot of people who are very dogmatic about AA, but I've also met a lot of people are very dogmatic about other methods. I, I actually met somebody the other day who thought Annie Grace was the Pope, that she was that like, Annie Grace is totally infallible. Everything she has ever said is completely true.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:45:41  Probably even all of the stuff she said when she was drinking was so true because she's so, like, blessed with the main line spirit of the sober Lord. Anyway, so and I think that's one of the things that, you know, all we can really do is show that there are lots of different ways. And yeah, you know, people have just got to find their own and that's, that's, you know what I want this podcast to be, you know, like a catalog and you pick. Yeah, the coffee table that defines you as a human being. That's that's what we're trying to do.

James Kachnoskie 00:46:15  That's it.

Speaker 3 00:46:16  Go.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:46:17  Right. And, you did mention that, one of the best things about the community is getting together, getting to know other people. So where can people, meet you? How can they find out more about what you do?

James Kachnoskie 00:46:30  All right. So I have a podcast that is on Spotify. It's on Apple. It's called Addictively Speaking. I also am on Instagram.

James Kachnoskie 00:46:39  That was at addictively JK. And I also have a Facebook page that is at addictively JK yeah, I'm on YouTube. I think it's, at the addictively speaking part, addictively speaking podcast. yeah. So, you know, I'm on TikTok, I'm on all the I'm on all the fancy schmancy social media. You have to be on to do this. so I'm on everything. if you do find me, reach out, say hello, watch some stuff. Like some stuff. Share some stuff. You know, that's what it's all about. Get out there. We're trying to help people.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:47:18  Oh, so obviously we'll stick all those links in the show notes. And obviously everybody is just about to go and give your podcast a five star review on the old Apple as well. So yeah, you know, give James some love because he's doing some great work in the world. And, you know, whilst you're there, you can be bothered to find Flatpack sober and give us give us some love as well.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:47:40  We wouldn't say we wouldn't say no to that. So look, James, thank you so much for your time. it's been it's been great fun.

James Kachnoskie 00:47:48  Yeah, man, I appreciate it. Thank you for having me on. it's it's always great doing these podcasts and, like, just sharing some time with the with other people in recovery and just, like, you know, just having a chat about it, open conversation. And I think this is great. Like it's a great forum for us to to really share our experiences.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:48:09  Absolutely. And I wasn't rude about the Philadelphia Eagles once, that is.

James Kachnoskie 00:48:14  You know what. Thank you so much. And the Super Bowl is coming up. They're not in it. They got knocked out first round of the playoffs. And I'm still angry.

Speaker 3 00:48:22  So yeah yeah.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:48:24  The ironic thing is that this episode is not going to come out for ages. So the Super Bowl will have happened, which you definitely didn't win because you get knocked out of the playoffs, but you'll probably still be angry about it.

James Kachnoskie 00:48:35  Yeah, 100%. I'll be I'll be angry till the beginning of next season, and if we lose our first game, I'll continue to be angry until probably the end of next year. So yeah.

Duncan Bhaskaran Brown 00:48:46  So as you say, James, you're a work in progress. But keep that right.

Speaker 3 00:48:50  Yeah.

James Kachnoskie 00:48:51  Absolutely.